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Roy Forbes celebrates 50 years, from Bim to Edge of Blue

Roy Forbes is celebrating 50 years in the music business right now, because back in 1971—18 years old and fresh out of Dawson Creek—he showed up in Vancouver to launch his career as a singer-songwriter, guitarist, and producer.

Back then, though, he was better known as Bim.

"It was one of my childhood nicknames," says Forbes on the phone from his North Van home, "and you know in the early '70s it seemed like a good idea to be Bim. Later on there was Valdy, Ferron...and Raffi of course. Now you've got Feist, Lights. So it worked, but as life meandered on into the mid-to-late-'80s, I kept putting 'Bim, aka Roy Forbes' on my posters, and finally one day I just switched it around."

Forbes started recorded under his real name with the 1987 album Love Turns to Ice, and by that time he was already a fixture on the Canadian folk music scene, known for his high, keening voice and his acoustic blues and traditional country stylings. Last year he released his first studio recording in 14 years, Edge of Blue , which he'll showcase songs from at a string of shows that include a two-night fundraiser for First Impressions Theatre  next weekend (October 22 and 23).

When he looks back on his half-century in the music biz to try and pick out the most memorable moments, he doesn't even have to go that far back.

"I had one recently with Steve Dawson and his band," notes Forbes of a 2019 gig at West Van's Kay Meek Arts Centre. "Steve likes to reimagine these albums, and we were doing the Tom Petty Full Moon Fever album, and I mean his band is shit hot— it's really a good buncha people he's got together. But anyway we were doing 'Here Comes My Girl', which is a song I've always loved, and it was as if we all levitated doin' that tune.

"Another highlight was in the fall of '71, when suddenly I found myself on stage at the Queen E. Theatre opening for Rita Coolidge. That was pretty amazing, and especially considering that ten months earlier I had had my mind blown witnessing Neil Young's solo tour on that same stage. That's still pretty precious to me—and I got some good reviews, too."

Other musical moments Forbes looks back fondly on are his Rio Theatre performance with Amos Garrett at a 2013 benefit to support Garrett after his house in High River, Alberta, got flooded, and his numerous gigs at folk festivals doing workshops with artists like Memphis Slim, Lydia Mendoza, and guitar legend Richard Thompson.

"There was one with Richard Thompson where I was playing in an open tuning," he recalls, "and he nodded to me to take a solo. I had to do some quick thinking, so that was fun. Normally when you take a solo you're in standard tuning, right."

It's not so much the past as the present that's on Forbes's mind these days, though. He's chomping at the bit to get out and perform tunes from Edge of Blue , which was recorded and mixed by Jim Woodyard—except for the keyboard tracks, which were recorded by Chris Gestrin . Forbes first met Gestrin—who plays Hammond organ and Wurlitzer electric piano on the disc—at the aforementioned Tom Petty tribute.

"With Chris Gestrin, you don't have to say anything," raves Forbes. "You just kinda give him the odd hint, and away he goes."

Gestrin is just one of several familiar Vancouver names that catch the eye on Edge of Blue 's credits. Another is local legend Claire Lawrence, who plays sax on the closing track, "Rumble Strip".

"That is the Claire Lawrence from the Collectors," confirms Forbes, "who produced my first couple of albums. He also produced—along with Shari [Ulrich] and Bill [Henderson] and I—the UHF albums. I mean I bow down to Claire, my early mentor. I respect him so much."

Another ace player on the album is John Reischman , who handles mandolin on "The Beating of Your Very Own Heart."

"We go back to the early '90s," says Forbes. "I used to hire him on various records that I produced, and, again, most respect. You're not gonna tell John Reischman what to play. You're just gonna listen and be amazed at what he comes up with, and pick your favourite of two or three tracks that he might have laid down."

One local music-scene luminary mentioned on Edge of Blue— though not for any instrumental contribution—is artist manager Gary Cristall , who gets a shout-out "for his way with words".

"He's written my bios for the past couple of albums," explains Forbes, "and he's such a great guy. He booked the [Vancouver] folk festival for years, and I've done umpteen festivals in my life—headlined them all, whatever—and when I would read the program the Vancouver ones were always the favourite, because he's such a good writer."

Forbes penned all 10 tracks on Edge of Blue himself, and he calls it the most cohesive album that he's ever done. But it's not like he has anything against cover material.

"It just felt right to use all of these songs," he says, "but I do love to interpret. I'd love to do a soul album, you know, where I interpret tunes by Sam Cooke, Little Willie John, Hank Ballard, all of that. If I had an unlimited budget you'd have a hard time gettin' hold of me right now. I'd be in the studio recording all these dream albums."

For Edge of Blue Forbes was joined in the studio by rhythm sections that included acoustic bassist Miles Hill, electric bassist Brian Newcombe , and drummers Chris Nordquist and Phil Robertson . But for his upcoming shows it'll just be his voice and the Gurian guitar he bought new at Kitsilano's Bill Lewis Music in January of '72.

"I will be celebrating the repertoire from the past 50 years," he says, "but the big concentration will be on Edge of Blue , because that's still the new album, even though it's over a year old now. But I'll also go back to things like 'Can't Catch Me', which I made up about 50 years ago almost to the day, and it was the kickoff track on Kid Full of Dreams , the first album. So I do a few of the old ones and lots of the new ones."

Forbes, who's always suffered from "crummy sight", lost his dwindling vision entirely after an accident in 2015, and he says that writing songs like Edge of Blue 's "Don't Let Go" and 'Heart Have Mercy" was part of his recovery process. But the sightlessness hasn't effected his guitar playing much--or put a damper on his sense of humour.

"Not really," he claims. "I practice more now, and I've made myself work up and down the neck, right from the start. Occasionally I'll be down in the lower area and go up to grab let's say a high-E note or something, and more often than not, I get there. And if I don't, call it jazz. A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha ."

Roy Forbes plays the Deep Cove Shaw Theatre in North Van on October 22 and 23; the Duncan Showroom in Duncan, B.C. on November 5; the Charlie White Theatre in Sidney, B.C., on November 6; and Blue Frog Studios in White Rock on November 13.

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Interviews with rock legends since 1982

Roy Forbes looks back on half a century in the music biz

ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED ON OCT. 16, 2021

By steve newton.

Roy Forbes is celebrating 50 years in the music business right now, because back in 1971–18 years old and fresh out of Dawson Creek–he showed up in Vancouver to launch his career as a singer-songwriter, guitarist, and producer.

Back then, though, he was better known as Bim.

“It was one of my childhood nicknames,” says Forbes on the phone from his North Van home, “and you know in the early ’70s it seemed like a good idea to be Bim. Later on there was Valdy, Ferron…and Raffi of course. Now you’ve got Feist, Lights. So it worked, but as life meandered on into the mid-to-late-’80s, I kept putting ‘Bim, aka Roy Forbes’ on my posters, and finally just one day I just switched it around.”

Forbes started recorded under his real name with the 1987 album Love Turns to Ice, and by that time he was already a fixture on the Canadian folk music scene, known for his high, keening voice and his acoustic blues and traditional country stylings. Last year he released his first studio recording in 14 years, Edge of Blue , which he’ll showcase songs from at a string of shows that include a two-night fundraiser for First Impressions Theatre this weekend (October 22 and 23).

When he looks back on his half-century in the music biz to try and pick out the most memorable moments, he doesn’t even have to go that far back.

“I had one recently with Steve Dawson and his band,” notes Forbes of a 2019 gig at West Van’s Kay Meek Arts Centre. “Steve likes to reimagine these albums, and we were doing the Tom Petty Full Moon Fever album, and I mean his band is shit hot –it’s really a good buncha people he’s got together. But anyway we were doing ‘Here Comes My Girl’, which is a song I’ve always loved, and it was as if we all levitated doin’ that tune.

“Another highlight was in the fall of ’71, when suddenly I found myself on stage at the Queen E. Theatre opening for Rita Coolidge. That was pretty amazing, and especially considering that ten months earlier I had had my mind blown witnessing Neil Young ‘s solo tour on that same stage. That’s still pretty precious to me–and I got some good reviews, too.”

Other musical moments Forbes looks back fondly on are his Rio Theatre performance with Amos Garrett at a 2013 benefit to support Garrett after his house got flooded, and his numerous gigs at folk festivals doing workshops with artists like Memphis Slim, Lydia Mendoza, and guitar legend Richard Thompson.

“There was one with Richard Thompson where I was playing in an open tuning,” he recalls, “and he nodded to me to take a solo. I had to do some quick thinking, so that was fun. Normally when you take a solo you’re in standard tuning, right.”

It’s not so much the past as the present that’s on Forbes’s mind these days, though. He’s chomping at the bit to get out and perform tunes from Edge of Blue , which was recorded and mixed by Jim Woodyard–except for the keyboard tracks, which were recorded by Chris Gestrin. Forbes first met Gestrin–who plays Hammond organ and Wurlitzer electric piano on the disc–at the aforementioned Tom Petty tribute.

“With Chris Gestrin, you don’t have to say anything,” raves Forbes. “You just kinda give him the odd hint, and away he goes.”

Gestrin is just one of several familiar Vancouver names that catch the eye on Edge of Blue ‘s credits. Another is local legend Claire Lawrence, who plays sax on the closing track, “Rumble Strip”.

“That is the Claire Lawrence from the Collectors,” confirms Forbes, “who produced my first couple of albums. He also produced–along with Shari [Ulrich] and Bill [Henderson] and I–the UHF albums. I mean I bow down to Claire, my early mentor. I respect him so much.”

Another ace player on the album is John Reischman, who handles mandolin on “The Beating of Your Very Own Heart.”

“We go back to the early ’90s,” says Forbes. “I used to hire him on various records that I produced, and, again, most respect. You’re not gonna tell John Reischman what to play. You’re just gonna listen and be amazed at what he comes up with, and pick your favourite of two or three tracks that he might have laid down.”

One local music-scene luminary mentioned on Edge of Blue –though not for any instrumental contribution–is artist manager Gary Cristall, who gets a shout-out “for his way with words”.

“He’s written my bios for the past couple of albums,” explains Forbes, “and he’s such a great guy. He booked the [Vancouver] folk festival for years, you know that, and I’ve done umpteen festivals in my life–I did them all, headlined them all, whatever–and when I would read the program the Vancouver ones were always the favourite, because he’s such a good writer.”

Forbes wrote all 10 tracks on Edge of Blue himself, and he calls it the most cohesive album that he’s ever done. But it’s not like he has anything against cover material.

“It just felt right to use all of these songs,” he says, “but I do love to interpret. I’d love to do a soul album, you know, where I interpret tunes by Sam Cooke, Little Willie John, Hank Ballard, all of that. If I had an unlimited budget you’d have a hard time gettin’ hold of me right now. I’d be in the studio recording all these dream albums.”

For Edge of Blue Forbes was joined in the studio by rhythm sections that included acoustic bassist Miles Hill, electric bassist Brian Newcombe, and drummers Chris Nordquist and Phil Robertson. But for his upcoming shows it’ll just be his voice and the Gurian guitar he bought new at Kitsilano’s Bill Lewis Music in January of ’72.

“I will be celebrating the repertoire from the past 50 years,” he says, “but the big concentration will be on Edge of Blue , because that’s still the new album, even though it’s over a year old now. But I’ll also go back to things like ‘Can’t Catch Me’, which I made up about 50 years ago almost to the day, and it was the kickoff track on Kid Full of Dreams , the first album. So I do a few of the old ones and lots of the new ones.”

Forbes, who’s always suffered from “crummy sight”, lost his dwindling vision entirely after an accident in 2015, and he says that writing songs like Edge of Blue ‘s “Don’t Let Go” and ‘Heart Have Mercy” was part of his recovery process. But the sightlessness hasn’t effected his guitar playing much.

“Not really,” he claims. “I practice more now, and I’ve made myself work up and down the neck, right from the start. Occasionally I’ll be down in the lower area and go up to grab let’s say a high-E note or something, and more often than not, I get there. And if I don’t, call it jazz. A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha .”

To hear the full 26-minute audio of my interview with Roy Forbes subscribe to my Patreon  page, where you can eavesdrop on over 325 of my uncut, one-on-one conversations with:

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Roy Forbes celebrates 50 years in music this weekend in Oak Bay

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IN CONCERT: Roy Forbes

Where : Upstairs Lounge, Oak Bay Recreation Centre, 1975 Bee St.

When : Saturday, May 28, 7:30 p.m. (doors at 6)

Tickets : $30 from beaconridgeproductions.com ; $35 at the door

Roy Forbes has made his return following the longest break of his 50-year career, an 18-month stretch of inactivity due to COVID-19. That is a surprise unto itself.

Forbes, who lost his right eye to glaucoma when he was six, lost sight in his left eye following an accident at home in 2015. Now legally blind, the 69-year-old could have called it a day during the pandemic, with very little left to prove. Few among his legion of fans would have blamed the popular North Vancouver resident, had he chosen to retire. But he returned to music, and released his first new album of material in 14 years.

The two-time Juno Award nominee, who recorded as Bim until 1982, now has tour dates in support of the new album, Edge of Blue , including a stop Saturday at the Oak Bay Recreation Centre’s Upstairs Lounge. Fans often approach the Dawson Creek native and tell him they are overjoyed to see him on stage again; the feeling is mutual, Forbes said.

“Some of us have been hanging out with each other for almost 50 years. I was happy to get us all back together again.”

Forbes is performing solo at the moment, which is how many in B.C. will remember him from his early days in the Vancouver scene. He arrived in 1971 as a relatively untested talent known solely as Bim, but Forbes quickly asserted himself. Word of his singing, songwriting and guitar playing prowess grew, leading to several key shows and studio sessions, with everyone from David Foster, Richard Thompson and Rita Coolidge to John Lee Hooker and Santana.

“I’m more than capable of carrying it [solo],” he said. “Frankly, I like it that way. I can walk the tightrope on my own and make a little change in a tune, and I don’t have to worry about people following me.”

Not every show in the ’70s was a cakewalk for Forbes, whose music has always been suited to environments where listening — not partying — is a priority. As an upstart in the tough Vancouver scene, however, he didn’t always have a say in the matter. Genres were less defined back then, so he found himself on stage in some unforgiving environments.

“I opened for Jeff Beck at the Queen Elizabeth Theatre in 1975, and the crowd was full of heavy metal guitar players who must have been thinking: ‘What the hell is this guy doing up there?’ ” he said with a laugh. “And then I pulled it out I’m So Lonesome I Could Cry , a Hank Williams tune that I’d done for years, and won them over.”

Forbes has dabbled in the years since, from a Christmas album with Connie Kaldor and Norm MacPherson, to membership in the super-group UHF, with Shari Ulrich of the Hometown Band and Bill Henderson of Chilliwack. Edge of Blue, his first studio recording since 2006, arrived in 2020, and brought into the fold a host of Vancouver luminaries, from bluegrass mandolinist John Reischman and jazz pianist Chris Gestrin to multi-instrumentalist Claire Lawrence of The Collectors.

Forbes said it has been a fascinating journey thus far, from playing rock and roll in Dawson Creek to mining singer-songwriter territory around Western Canadian festivals. “There are a handful of us who are still doing it, who were doing it back in the day, and that’s cool. We just keep going. I lost my sight in 2015, but I was able to get back on stage within five or six months of my accident. I just kept going.”

Hitting the road with fresh material is a dream scenario for Forbes. His fans often demand to hear specific songs at each concert — Lifting My Heart , If I Were a Raven , or So Close to Home — so he will delve into Edge of Blue when he needs to quell the stream of requests, Forbes said jokingly.

“Those fans that I made in the ‘70s with those first records, those songs belong to them. The fans stuck with me when I did the name change in ‘87, and they are so loyal, through the ‘80s up until now. It’s a loyal bunch. And it really hits me now. I don’t know if it’s the 50-year mark, but the connection that we have, the fans and I, it’s deep. It’s really deep. It’s quite emotional sitting there, at the CD table, chatting with people and getting their story. The tunes have gone out there and they’ve done something. It feels really good.”

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Past Events

Here are the most recent UK tour dates we had listed for Roy Forbes. Were you there?

August 2023

• Sun 6 Aug Bilston, The Trumpet Jazz & Blues Festival Steve Ajao, Roy Forbes, Tim Amann Trio
• Tue 18 Jul Cradley Heath Library Roy Forbes
• Mon 6 Jul Cradley Heath Library Roy Forbes
• Fri 18 Jul ➙ Sun 27 Jul Birmingham International Jazz And Blues Festival 2014 Remi Harris (1), Ricky Cool & The In Crowd, Bruce Adams, The Jake Leg Jug Band, Lady Sings The Blues…

November 2013

• Tue 19 Nov London, The Horse & Stables Bar Roy Forbes, Cathy Hamlyn, Mariska Barnett, Karl Charity
• Fri 5 Jul ➙ Sun 14 Jul Birmingham International Jazz & Blues Festival The Barrett Brothers, Digby Fairweather, Poetry, Shreveport Rhythm, Diz 'Honeybear' Watson…
• Fri 24 May Solihull, The Core Theatre King Pleasure And The Biscuit Boys, Val Wiseman Combo, Tipitina, Roy Forbes, The Brian Dee Trio

January 2013

• Sun 27 Jan Birmingham, The New Inn Roy Forbes

December 2012

• Sat 8 Dec Birmingham, Chung Ying Garden Roy Forbes

October 2008

• Fri 17 Oct West Bromwich, The Public Roy Forbes

September 2008

• Tue 30 Sep Birmingham, The Water's Edge Roy Forbes
• Sat 12 Jul West Bromwich, The Public Roy Forbes
• Fri 4 Jul Birmingham, Menzies Strathallan Hotel Roy Forbes

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Featured link, more information:, roy forbes at courtenay's old church theatre, one of canada’s best loved songwriters and performing artists.

Edge of Blue may just be the Vancouver singer-songwriter’s best yet- a summation by an artist who has been doing this for a long time. Edge of Blue is 10 songs full of wisdom, confessions, vulnerability, sensuality, self- reflection, and celebration. This is art song- memorable words, compelling compositions, spare production, and a voice every bit as original as when the “kid full of dreams” first hit the big city over fifty years ago- pure Roy Forbes.

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20 questions with Roy Forbes

Vancouver singer-songwriter celebrates the release of his new album Edge of Blue with a concert on February 21

Meet Vancouver songwriter and performing artist Roy Forbes.

Roy celebrates the release of his latest album Edge of Blue with a concert at the Mel Lehan Hall at St. James Community Square in Vancouver on February 21. A new album is a rare occurrence for the musician and through Edge of Blue ‘s ten songs, Roy explores his roots and routes amassed over a nearly fifty-year career. Visit roguefolk.bc.ca for tickets and information.

20 Questions with Roy Forbes

1. your first job..

Filling shelves at New Deal Grocery in Dawson Creek. Lesson learned? Rotate your stock.

2. The job you always wanted as a child?

The job I’ve had for over fifty years. Writing, recording and playing music.

3. Your pet peeve.

Peanut butter and honey on my fingers.

4. Your hero.

Heroes come and go.

5. Your biggest indulgence.

Vinyl and shellac records. Mostly 45s and 78s but I love 33s as well.

6. One thing no one knows about you.

That’s for me to know…

7. Three things you would want with you on a deserted island.

If we’re talking records, I’d take Dylan’s Blonde On Blonde , the Band’s Music From Big Pink and the Miles Davis Kind Of Blue LP.

8. The one word your best friend would use to describe you.

Roy! In italics.

9. If they made a movie about your life, who would it star?

Oh, what the heck. How about Peter Falk. After all, Columbo always knew more than he was letting on…

10. Hero or villain?

A bit of both. In other words, a normal guy.

11. Your life’s motto/mantra.

Start from now.

12. The song getting the most play on your Spotify playlist right now.

Things Have Changed by Bettye LaVette. Her entire album of Dylan interpretations is colossal.

13. The last book you read.

Motherless Brooklyn by Jonathan Lethem.

14. If you were a cartoon character, what cartoon character would you be, and why?

I’ll be darned if I know.

15. What will it say on your grave marker?

Here lies Lydia’s boyfriend.

16. Who would you most like to have dinner with?

My dad, who passed when I was three.

17. Your idea of happiness.

A fiddle solo by the jazz violinist, Stuff Smith. Joy oozes from every note.

18. If you could go back in time, what would you tell your twenty-year-old self?

19. the one thing in your life that makes you most proud..

My child, Riley, a proud trans man.

20. To be or not to be?

As Paul said, “Let it be”.

About Roy Forbes

Roy Forbes is one of Canada’s best known and best-loved songwriters and performing artists. He’s been at it for almost fifty years and has picked up some tokens of appreciation from his peers. There is a street named after him in his hometown of Dawson Creek in Northern B.C. and a star on Vancouver’s Granville Street where the names of the B.C. Entertainment Hall of Fame members are enshrined.

Mainly, and more importantly, Roy is firmly etched in the minds of thousands, tens of thousands in fact, of music lovers across the country. Some remember a skinny kid who went under the name of Bim, others the more mature man who reclaimed his ‘real’ name. Some got to know him at festivals from Faro in the Yukon to Ottawa as Roy trod the boards from the seventies to a stellar performance at the fortieth-anniversary edition of the Vancouver Folk Music Festival. For others, it was at a myriad of folk clubs and concert stages.  For still others, it was Roy as a member of a contemporary folk supergroup- UHF- where he joined forces with Shari Ulrich and Bill Henderson. For some, it was Roy’s searing rendition of Hank Williams’ So Lonesome I Could Cry , for others his sweet treat Christmas anthem- Mince Meat Tart , or Tender Lullaby , while others heard him second hand through Shawn Colvin’s cover of Talk Around Town . Roy has made his mark for generations of listeners as a solo, bandleader, ensemble member, interpreter and songwriter. This is not to mention his work as a record producer, radio host at CBC Radio & CKUA, and popular music historian of 78 RPM records. Over the last five decades, Roy has had a few brushes with fame and endured, becoming an organic part of Canadian music.

The last few years have been a challenge. Afflicted with poor vision all his life, Roy was blinded by an accident in 2015. He may have lost his sight but not his vision. Roy has adapted to his new reality, returning to touring and performing and recording and all the other things he does so well.  He is now among the blind seers who populate history from Homer, who gave us the Odyssey, to Blind Willie Johnson and Roland Kirk, Ray Charles and Doc Watson and others who gave us some of the world’s best music. Now Roy is serving up his latest album Edge of Blue , something like his 11th solo effort.

You can find out more about Roy on his website or Facebook .

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Hvorostovsky in Moscow

With Guest star Sondra Radvanovsky Constantine Orbelian, conductor Philharmonia of Russia

A Magical Match Made in Moscow. In June 2008, Dmitri Hvorostovsky invited Sondra Radvanovsky to be his guest star in the prestigious Moscow concert series ‘Hvorostovsky and Friends,’ with conductor Constantine Orbelian and the Philharmonia of Russia. This glamorous occasion, captured on film for Russian television, marked these artists’ first-ever musical collaboration – and proved to be a historic event that documented for posterity one of those all-too-rare instances of magical artistic alchemy between two great opera stars. Their electrifying performance was an instant sensation, and a potent preview of the two stars’ effusively acclaimed later appearances together in Il Trovatore at Covent Garden, The Met and The San Francisco Opera.

Delos recorded the live concert, to be released later as the critically-acclaimed CD, ‘Verdi Opera Scenes’. The Russian TV show, featuring their national baritone hero and his dazzling guest, was broadcast throughout the Russian Federation. Upon obtaining that film footage, Delos collaborated with California film editor Steve Scoville, who expertly synched the footage with Delos’s concert audio. The result, available for the first time on this DVD, takes the viewer/listener to Moscow’s Great Hall for the concert’s most unforgettable moments, with stunning ‘you are there’ sonic and visual impact. Bonus feature interview with Maestro Orbelian.

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Best of Moscow by high speed train

By shuguley , February 15, 2014 in Regent Seven Seas Cruises

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Sure would appreciate someone who has taken "Best of Moscow by high speed train" from St. Petersburg could please share their impressions of this shore excursion. From the description this sounds like a very long day.

Wondering how the 4 hour train trip was in terms of accommodations, etc. Also what time did you leave the ship and what time at night did you return? Were both legs of the trip on the high speed rail (I read that slower trains also travel the same tracks)?

My wife and I are considering this excursion. We thought that if we are making all the effort to go to Russia then how could we pass up going to Moscow, walking in Red Square, seeing St. Basil, etc.

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If you are considering this on the 2015 June Baltic cruise on Voyager; my suggestion is don't. There is so much to do in St. Petersburg and although a train is one of my favorite ways to travel the time would be far better spent in St. P.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, this would be on the Voyager during the 2015 season but not yet sure exactly which cruise.

We did the Moscow excursion "on a different luxury line", but from your brief description it sounds very much like the same trip, so I will operate on that assumption. It is a VERY long day! We left the ship at 5:30 AM and returned at 12:30 AM. The highspeed train trip is comfortable, and while they call it "Business Class" it does not compare well to the equivalent class on say Rail Europe. When we did it in 2011, we did have highspeed both ways, and the trip back seemed much longer as the adrenaline and excitement had worn off!:D

Moscow itself is not that terribly different from any other big city in the world, but this Cold War kid never thought he would ever stand in Red Square, never mind walk the grounds of The Kremlin, or tour The Kremlin Palace, or see (but not visit) Lenin's Tomb, or visit The Armoury. But he did, and he loved every minute of it! Yes, it is a long day, and you barely scratch a scratch on the surface, but it is worth it. There is a tremendous amount to see in St. Petersburg, but every Baltic cruise goes to St. Petersburg, so you can go back if you choose to. Not every cruiseline offers you the chance to see Moscow.

I have not personally done this tour, but our last time in St Petersburg, the private guide that we hired for a day was leading the regent tour to Moscow on the high speed train the next day. He said it was way better than the previous alternative, which was flying to Moscow and back. He said that you actually got to Moscow faster because you didn't have to deal with airline checkin etc. it did seem like a very long day to me, and there is so much to see and do in st. Petersburg that I didn't consider doing it.

countflorida

We toured to Moscow from St. Petersburg via the hi-speed SAPSAN train last September, from a Baltic cruise on the Oceania Marina. You need to have a two-night, three day port call in St. Petersburg to take this tour because the tour typically leaves the ship around 5:00 - 5:30 AM and doesn't return until after midnight the next day. We didn't take the ship's tour; we made private arrangements with TravelAllRussia for three days of touring, the first and third days in St. Petersburg and the second day the tour to Moscow by train. Our cost for the private tour for three days was about the same as what the ship charged for the excursion to Moscow alone. There are a number of private tour agencies that operate in St. Petersburg and offer the Moscow train tours; we would strongly recommend them over the ship's tours.

All three days had private guides with car and driver. The second day, the driver picked us up at the ship and took us to the train, but we were alone on the train, and met in Moscow by the guide on the station platform. After our tour and dinner, we were brought back to the train and after the return train trip met by the driver and taken back to the ship. Because you are alone on the train you must have your own Russian visas.

If this is your first visit to St. Petersburg, I would agree there is much more to see there. We found Moscow somewhat a disappointment, particularly Red Square. The Kremlin and the cathedral in Red Square were also worth seeing. But the best thing we saw was the Moscow subway! I worked for the Washington Metro system back in the 1980s as it grew from 40 to 80 miles and although I was in the computer area, I learned a lot about the challenges of running a subway system. We used the Moscow system to get across the city from where we had dinner to the train station, and I was amazed at the cleanliness', speed of operation, the short headways maintained, and the courtesy of everyone involved. A very impressive experience!

We had been to St. Petersburg before, and so had the time to take a day and go to Moscow. Also, I really like trains, and the SAPSAN is a German train set running on Russian rails. Seats are like first class domestic air, spacious but not too plush or comfortable, but with enough room. Not too much recline, and almost 8 hours on the train in two shots is a lot for an old man. They come through and sell drinks, candy, etc. but the sellers don't speak English and no one around us helped, so we had just poor coffee once coming, and brought stuff with us for the trip back. Not too much to see from the train either, particularly on the return when it is night the whole way.

If you decide to go, take a private tour and avoid the overly expensive ship's tour. I'm glad we did it, but wouldn't bother to repeat the tour; we've seen Moscow.

Thanks so much to all of you for the thorough and thought insight. Yhe information you have provided is most helpful.

countflorida: Your detailed post is very helpful. We are not quite ready for a Baltic cruise but should do so within a year. Time enough to do our pre travel research, bookings and visa gathering.:) Thank you!

Emperor Norton

Sure would appreciate someone who has taken "Best of Moscow by high speed train" from St. Petersburg could please share their impressions of this shore excursion. From the description this sounds like a very long day.   Wondering how the 4 hour train trip was in terms of accommodations, etc. Also what time did you leave the ship and what time at night did you return? Were both legs of the trip on the high speed rail (I read that slower trains also travel the same tracks)?   My wife and I are considering this excursion. We thought that if we are making all the effort to go to Russia then how could we pass up going to Moscow, walking in Red Square, seeing St. Basil, etc.

I did this on Seabourn. IMO DONT. Take Aeroflop (er Aeroflot). The train has non folding seats where you are literally knee to knee with your fellow passenger (facing each other). Further they don't believe in air conditioning. It's also the worlds slowed bullet train. I think I would have found more enjoyment wandering around the St. Petersburg and Moscow airports.

Countflorida,

This is a little off topic,, however we had planned a river cruise in Russia but decided we would rather stay on land and have booked about two weeks with Travel-All-Russia using the private guide and driver. I'm curious as to how you found them as a tour company.

The guides they provided were fine. We had a different guide each of the days in St. Petersburg, but both were flexible, pleasant, knowledgeable and spoke English very well, as did the guide in Moscow, incidentally. She was a bit aloof, distant, not too friendly, but otherwise fine. In fact, she was the one who suggested taking the Metro, which unexpectedly became one of the highlights of the Moscow excursion. If I have a complaint with AllTravelRussia, it is with their plan and its execution (more later).

I had requested emphasis on World War II (in Russia, the Great Patriotic War) sites and info. In scheduling us, they weren't careful about dates and a couple of the sites we wanted to see were scheduled on the third day, after we'd been to Moscow. But both sites were closed that day of the week, and that info was readily available, right on web sites describing them. Also, the included meals (lunches in St. Pete, dinner in Moscow) were not what we asked for: light meals with some choices, so we could avoid things we didn't like and choose things we did like. My request was ignored; we were given full Russian meals with a fixed menu, no choice. On the first day, a fish dish was the entre, but I am allergic to fish. Fortunately, I had the e-mail I'd sent with me and showed it to the guide, and she was able to change my entre to chicken, which was very good actually. But we didn't want a 3-4 course lunches or dinner (in Moscow). We had the guide drop the lunch the third day, although we never got any credit or refund. But, particularly in contrast to the ship's tours, the prices were so reasonable we didn't worry too much about it.

The people who were on the ship's tour to Moscow saw us boarding the same train for which they were forced to queue up and wait on the way back, and asked us what we had done. I was candid and open so they were not happy when I explained what we had arranged and particularly what it had cost. Also, when we returned to the ship, we found they had laid on a late supper for those who had gone to Moscow, so up we went and had something. Well, it turns out the late supper was supposed to be just for those on the ship's tour, but we and others on 'independent' tours, there were a dozen or more of us, crashed the party, actually got there first, and they didn't realize it until the larger group arrived and there weren't enough tables/places set. By that time, the 'independents' had all gotten served and were eating; what could they do?

A couple from the larger group sat down with us and asked us about our tour, and they were the ones I told about our arrangement and its cost. They turned to others who’d been with them and announced the details, loudly enough so the whole room heard, which started a lot of bitching and complaining. I gathered they weren't very happy with the ship's tour to begin with, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. We finished up and beat it out of there, but overheard later that one of the excursion staff came to check on something and ran into a real mess. I caught a cold on the trip, which forced me to bed the second day following in Tallinn, so by the time we reappeared we heard about the contretemps' but apparently no one recalled who started it, thankfully.

Because of what happened to us, I would probably not use AllTravelRussia if I were to go again, or if I did, I would be sure to get confirmation of every detail of the tour. They do have good reviews generally, and we were certainly helped by their visa department and liked the guides and drivers. Their weakness, I say now with full 20:20 hindsight, is that once the sales person who plans the tour, sells it to you and collects your money, he (or she) transfers the plan to their Russia office for implementation; there is no follow-up to make sure it gets done right. And that is where our problems arose; we paid for a custom tour but got a standard package with a few destinations switched, and no one checked them out, even to see when they were open the day we were scheduled to go. If you check every detail that’s important to you, it should be OK, but that’s a hell of a way to have to do business, in my opinion.

Thank you for the 20/20 hindsight observation on your Russian tour operator, and better priced than the ship's excursion cost.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

We had the same experience as you so far as price. We originally booked a Viking Cruise but, hearing some things about the river cruises that made us unhappy, looked into other options. T-A-R cost the same or less than a cruise and had us in hotels for 11 days. We opted for the private tour. They have three tour levels, based on hotels. We originally opted for the four star as it did not cost much more than the three star hotels. Finally we decided to throw it all in and upgraded to five star. In Moscow we will be at the newly opened Kempinsky which is two blocks from Red Square. In St. Petersburg it is the Grand Hotel Europe, one of the most vaunted luxury hotels in Russia. Location is important for us as the tours use up only part of the day so being in the center of everything for our independent touring is important. As with many other cities, the less you pay, the farther out of the center of town you are.

We have been working with our salesman in D.C. and he seems to get back to us with the changes we want. He recently returned from Russia so is up on everything. When I asked they said they paid the full TA commission if I wanted so I got my usual TA on board so he is watching our back and giving us that extra level of comfort. He also set up our air, which I know pays him little or nothing, and got us business class for much less than T-A-R wanted for economy, though it took working for a while with a consolidator. He's happy to get his 10 percent on this trip without having booked it. He also took care of the trip insurance. We've been doing a lot of research on the CC sister site Trip Advisor and will write a report there. We will, I guess, become a source of info for CC members after having spent 5 days in Moscow and 6 in SP.

• 4 months later...

scubacruiserx2

Anybody considering a day trip to Moscow from St. Petersburg on the Sapsan may want to look at our travelogue filled with pictures.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1927687

Very informative. Thanks dor sharing. Jeff

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