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Graphite Design Tour AD-65 Iron Shaft
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
- Performance iron shaft made in Japan
- Launch trajectory range: Mid to Mid-high
- Spin range: Low-mid to Mid
- Medium firm section with soft tip
- Speed recommendation: 86-105+ mph
- Tapered tip - 0.355 Tip OD
SPECIFICATIONS
- Available in flexes Regular and Stiff
TECHNOLOGY & FEATURES
- High modulus, premium, aerospace quality carbon fiber materials.
- Premium shaft line using advanced Material Stiffness Integration (MSI) technology
PERFORMANCE
- Designed to be very versatile with multiple weights available to promote Low/Mid to Mid/High launch angles with Low/Mid to Mid ball spin rates.
Added to your cart:
Choosing the Right Graphite Design Tour AD Shaft
And, Webb Simpson won THE PLAYERS 2018 Championship with the new higher launching Tour IZ 5X!
The Tour AD DI model is the first Graphite Design shaft design that was integrated with Toray Company’s original NANOALLOY material technology in the tip section of the shaft. This material technology has now come to be known as “DI Technology”. This unique material technology promotes additionally shaft stability without the loss of feel and allows the player to create greater club head speed and thus greater ball speed while still providing exceptional feel and control.
2018 Graphite Design Shaft Profile Comparison Chart
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Graphite Design Tour AD Iron Shaft Review
By russ ryden, fit2score, a dallas fort worth club fitter & club maker golf center at the highlands, carrollton tx, a golf digest top 100 club fitting studio.
I have fit almost exclusively with steel iron shafts for many, many years. When I built EI measuring instruments I checked shaft to shaft consistency in graphite iron shafts. I would not build with what I saw. When some premium shafts came to market last year I checked set consistency and saw what I most always see in steel. consistent profiles through out the sets. Furthermore, I saw steel like stiffness and torque in much lower weight shafts. Now that I am at an age where weight matters the stiffness to weight ratio of premium carbon fiber iron shafts got my attention.
To continue reading this section of the review, you must be registered at a higher level membership. Russ
Tournament Ready DRIVER / FAIRWAY Shafts with Adapter Tip + Grip are here! > Shop now
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Graphite Design Tour AD-65 Iron Shaft
Delivery & shipping.
Our team works fast to ship and get your order delivered as quickly as possible. All in-stock order ship the same day when placed by 5pm ET (2pm PT). For items not in stock, or available as pre-order, please allow ~3-5 business days to process before shipping.
**NOTE: Many shipping carriers (USPS/Fedex/UPS) are impacted and may take longer to deliver your package, in remote areas, and during sale and US holiday periods. Transit times are based on estimated delivery windows assuming no carrier delays. Carrier delays do occur from time to time and are not eligible for shipping refunds.
SHIPPING CARRIERS & DELIVERY TIMES (In-Stock/Non-Assembled Items)
*Not available for shaft orders, or non-standard box size orders.
Above shipping rates do NOT apply for custom assembled shafts/clubs. Please see rates/methods at Checkout for delivery timeframes.
*International shipping cutoff may be variable and due to customer communications regarding duties/taxes and/or shipping-related questions. Please note once your order has shipped, we cannot cancel or revise your order.
**Additional transit days may be required for customs release.
PROCESSING (CUTOFF) TIMES
All orders for in-stock and non-assembled items (like shafts/clubs), will ship according to the cutoff time on regular business days. If there are any unforeseen delays, we will reach out to you by e-mail or phone to confirm the additional processing time. For assembled items, please allow an additional 3-5 business days to process and prepare your order before shipping.
POSSIBLE SHIPPING DELAYS
- If you selected "Standard First Class Mail", please note your order may take up to 10 business days to arrive - see estimated delivery days based on location
- If the item you chose is not in-stock (we may reach out to you for further instructions) there may be additional delays to process your order.
- Please allow longer times for your order to arrive in remote areas and during sale periods. Delivery times may also be extended during US and international holidays .
- If the address is determined to be undeliverable by the carrier, the package will not be re-shipped.
*"First Class Mail" is only offered for items under 16 oz, and non-shaft type items."Standard Express US D2D", "Expedited US D2D", and "2-day Air US D2D" shipping services may be with either USPS or Fedex. If you need a specific carrier, please choose the desired shipping option provided by that carrier (which may require additional costs). PO box delivery addresses must have USPS carrier selected as the shipping option. 2-day Air service not available for PO box addresses, Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Northern Marina Islands, and Armed Forces territories. First Class Mail is not recommended for customers who need their orders delivered within 5 business days. Please select a faster method/carrier (or contact us if you have questions).
**F or non-personalized and non-assembled products, cutoff time on business days refers to Monday through Friday, and on non-US holidays. For orders placed on weekends (or Friday after the cutoff time), they will ship on the following business day.
If you selected a shipping method with determined delivery dates, such as "2-Day Air Shipping" or "Overnight Shipping", the delivery date will be counted as the Nth day starting with the following business day after the ship date. For example, if you place your order on a Friday after the cut-off time with 2-Day Air, your order will arrive on Wednesday (assuming no holidays in between).
IMPORTANT: All delivery times subject to in-stock products and deliverable addresses. For assembled shaft and club orders, please allow an extra 3-5 business days to process your order before shipping.
Free shipping offer only applies to orders delivered in the Continental US.
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT SHIPPING
HOW CAN I TRACK MY PACKAGE? Once your order ships, you will receive an automated email with the tracking link from our shipping carrier. Please allow 24 hrs for the tracking link to be updated correctly. For orders shipped with First Class Standard Shipping or some shaft orders, there will be no en-route updates aside from the initial carrier pick-up and final delivery update.
WHERE WILL MY ORDER SHIP FROM? We ship every order from our 30,000 square foot warehouse in sunny Southern California . Our most common shipping carrier is with USPS (US and international), Fedex (US and International) and DHL (international).
DO YOU SHIP INTERNATIONALLY (OUTSIDE THE US) Yes, we do! We offer competitive weight-based shipping rates with DHL (3 business days), USPS Priority (5-7 business days), Fedex International Economy (3-5 business days) and Fedex International Priority (1-2 business days) to almost country outside the US.
Please note all prices are in $USD unless otherwise stated. And with some international orders, there may be additional duties/taxes based on YOUR COUNTRY'S regulations that you will be responsible for.
To find out your international shipping rate, please add your items to the Cart and begin the checkout process. After entering your shipping address, you will see a selection of shipping carriers and their respective costs depending on the service you select. Or contact us by e-mail with your full shipping address, and the items/qtys you'd like to order, and we can provide some competitive shipping quotes for you.
RISK OF LOSS
All purchases of physical items from Grips4less are made pursuant to a shipment contract. This means that the risk of loss and title for such items pass to you upon our delivery to the carrier.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact us !
60 Day Easy Returns
Change your mind? No problem. Our hassle-free returns portal lets you request a return and keep track of your refunds. Please note assembled shafts and custom built items are not eligible for return.
Due to strict inventory guidelines, we are no longer processing exchanges . We ask that you send the items back for a refund and then repurchase whatever you need! >> Access your order history here and start a request here.
RETURN COSTS & RESTOCKING FEE (NON-ASSEMBLED ITEMS)
There are no restocking fees. However hhe cost of the return shipping label will be deducted from your refund ($11 for standard size packages, $13 for non-standard size packages such as golf shafts), if you decide to use the label provided by us. If you purchase a label yourself from a local carrier office (ie. USPS, UPS, Fedex), then there will be no deductions from your refund. If the items received are not in new/unused condition, we reserve the right to send the items back to you, or deduct a restocking fee from your refund.
RETURN COSTS & RESTOCKING FEE (ASSEMBLED ITEMS)
Assembled shafts and clubs cannot be returned. Once assembly has begun on your order, it cannot be canceled or modified. Please contact us with any questions before placing your order.
Returns can be made on non-personalized items and non-assembled items within the US, 60 days after you've received the original order. Items are only accepted on unopened and unused products . Items must be returned in the original packaging.
INTERNATIONAL RETURNS
Sorry, we are not accepting any international returns at this time.
Refunds are normally processed back to the original account (ie. credit card or PayPal). If you prefer store credit, please include this note of the refund request.
HOW TO CREATE A RETURN (ITEMS RETURNED MUST BE IN NEW & UNUSED CONDITION)
1) Access your order history, and request a return here
2) Your return request will be responded to within 1 business day (not including Sat/Sun/holidays). If the request is approved, we will e-mail you a return label.
3) Package up the original order and drop off the package at your local carrier.
4) After 1-2 weeks after receiving the return order, we will process and issue your refund (original paid price of items returned minus cost of return shipping) to the original payment account.
DID WE MAKE A MISTAKE?
If there was an issue with your order (the wrong was delivered, or the product arrived damage due to carrier neglect), we will ask you to send us some pictures. If the item is confirmed to be incorrect, we will provide a return label to send back the items. Once the items are back in our warehouse, we will resend your order with the correct items. We cannot ship out a replacement order until the original items are received back. For damanged items, we will open a claim with the carrier, and once the claim is approved, we will send the replacement item.
CANCELATION REQUESTS
While we do our best to process cancelation requests, our shipping team works fast, and we cannot guarantee that your order will be canceled
If we are able to cancel the order for you, there will be a 5% restocking fee deducted from the refund.
RETURNS, REFUNDS AND TITLE
Grips4less does not take title to returned items until the item arrives at our fulfillment center.
CONNECT WITH A REAL PERSON If you have any questions or need assistance visit our help center
Questions & Answers
Have a question.
Can you tell us the trimming instructions for the AD 65 370 iron set? Thank you
Because the irons are 0.355" discrete lengths, you will not tip trim at all. Only butt trim to acheive final desired playing length (as needed).
Is the AD 65 II only available in iron or as well im graphite?
It is only available as an iron shaft. If you're looking for the equivalent wood (driver/fwy) shaft, we would recommend the Tour AD DI Wood shaft .
would you tell me the difference between Tour AD 65 and Tour ad 65 Type II? Is the 65 gram the only weight offered in the type II? Thank You
The Tour AD 65 and 65 Type-II have the same specifications. The 65g shaft is only offered in the Type II format and was created when a material used to make the original 65g Iron shafts was discontinued.
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
- Performance iron shaft made in Japan
- Launch trajectory range: Mid to Mid-high
- Spin range: Low-mid to Mid
- Medium firm section with soft tip
- Speed recommendation: 86-105+ mph
- Tapered tip - 0.355 Tip OD
- Available in flexes Regular and Stiff
Customer Reviews
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Graphite Design Tour Ad 65 Iron Shaft Irons
Graphite design tour ad 65 iron shaft irons .
Graphite Design Tour AD 65 Iron Shaft The Graphite Design Tour AD 65 Iron Shaft is the complement model to the Tour AD premium wood series shafts. Utilizing the same technology as in the Tour AD wood series, the Tour AD Iron Shaft achieved a low balance design resulting in exceptional feel and control. Designed and manufactured in Japan, the Tour AD Iron Shaft exceeded overall performance characteristics when compared to lightweight steel shafts, producing superior distance with consistent traje
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Shaft Test: Graphite Design’s new Tour AD-TP versus the famous Tour AD-DI
With a similar profile to the company’s famous Tour AD-DI shaft, and a few new technologies for a slightly different ball flight, Graphite Design’s new Tour AD-TP shaft will surely entice a legion of high-spin golfers.
The new shafts are made for a mid launch and low spin rates, according to Graphite Design’s website, while the Tour AD-DI shafts are made for mid/high to high launch angles and low to low/mid spin rates. Certainly, they are in the same wheelhouse, but for anyone looking to create a slightly more penetrating ball flight with lower launch and lower spin, the new shaft could be their winning ticket.
To accomplish its performance, the AD-TP shafts are made with a faster taper rate from the lower-mid section to the tip of the shaft, and use an all-new graphite material from Toray Industries called T1100G carbon fiber pre-preg. They also use Toray’s Nanoalloy technology in the tip section, which was first introduced in Graphite Design’s Tour AD-DI. It help golfers gain more control of the club face by resisting torque. Read more about the Tour AD-TP shaft’s tech here .
Here’s the bend profile of the Tour AD-TP shafts, according to Graphite Design’s website:
And here’s how the Tour AD-TP shafts stack up versus the other Tour AD shafts:
As you can see, the Tour AD-TP (top row) compared to the Tour AD-DI (bottom row) will have a firmer mid and butt section, but will also have the familiar stiff tip section.
Personally, I’ve tested just about every new mainstream driver shaft that’s come out in the past three years, and I just haven’t been able to find something that matches my swing like the Tour AD-DI. As a golfer who fights a nasty hook and too much spin, it’s the stiffness and stability of the tip of the shaft that makes me comfortable enough to “go at it.” I’m also a Mets fan, so I like the orange color.
But for whatever reason, my golfing brain finds other shafts to load and unload way differently, either forcing me to flip or block drives, leading to tragic results. So although I often test the latest and greatest golf shafts for you, the GolfWRX readers, I’ve all but given up on other shafts making it into my gamer driver. Yes, other shafts have given me “more optimal” numbers in a Trackman environment, but there’s nothing optimal about feeling like you’re going to duck hook the ball off the planet with OB stakes left.
When Graphite Design announced a new shaft with a similar profile that’s made to create a slightly more penetrating trajectory, however, I’ll admit I was excited to try it. Let’s see how the numbers played out.
The Numbers
I tested my Tour AD-DI gamer shaft (45.5 inches, tipped 1 inch) against a Tour AD-TP shaft (45.5 inches, untipped) and a Tour AD-TP shaft (45.5 inches, tipped 1 inch) in a TaylorMade M1 460 head (10.5 degrees) set to neutral. Yes, I have a bit more swing speed in the tank than displayed below, but it’s also late October and I don’t want to have a blown out back all winter. I conducted my testing at the Launch Pad at Carl’s Golfland on TrackMan 4 using premium golf balls.
Magenta = Tour AD-TP (tipped 1 inch)
Observations
— Shots with the un-tipped shaft trended to the right. It felt like the face was opening on the downswing and I couldn’t turn my shots over. The data solidifies for me that performance matches my feel, and that I do indeed need a tipped shaft.
— The AD-DI shaft had the highest spin (2953 rpm), highest landing angle, most height (122.1 feet) and launched the highest (13.7 degrees).
— The AD-TP (tipped 1 inch) carried 4.9 yards shorter than the Tour AD-DI, but went 3.7 yards longer in total. This shows how much more penetrating the ball flight with a AD-TP shaft can be.
— Spin rate dropped from 2953 rpm with the Tour AD-DI (tipped 1 inch) to 2460 rpm with the AD-TP (tipped 1 inch).
— With nearly identical clubhead speed, ball speed and smash factors, it’s clear the Tour AD-TP was offering better numbers and tighter dispersion for me.
The Takeaway
The Graphite Design Tour AD-TP shaft is currently selling for $500 at retail. Based on the improvement I saw in my numbers, I would say that the new shaft is worth the value for my swing. The profile and new materials are a match for me in regards to ball flight characteristics and feel. I would describe the feel as “smooth-stiff, with a stable tip.”
Of course, it’s important to undergo a proper fitting, as you saw that the un-tipped version of the Tour AD-GP shaft was giving me fits. But, if you’re like me and struggle with high spin rates and inconsistency, the Tour AD-TP shaft may help you find more accuracy… and a bit more distance, too.
Is this TaylorMade’s new M1 driver?
Golfers are going CRAZY over Costco’s new Kirkland Signature golf balls
He played on the Hawaii Pacific University Men's Golf team and earned a Masters degree in Communications. He also played college golf at Rutgers University, where he graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in Journalism.
Golfandpuff
Nov 21, 2016 at 7:20 pm
Confidence is worth a ton…so if the shoe fits….
Bottom line find one for a song and play it!
Oct 31, 2016 at 1:36 pm
Andrew, the author of this review, comments about hitting duck hooks because that is his miss when he uses a shaft that doesn’t “fit” his swing style. It is the same issue I fight. The fact he has peppered the right side of the grid would be comforting for him. All in all, Andrew fits the new TP shaft pretty well.
Oct 30, 2016 at 11:57 pm
Some shafts get progressively weaker to the tip (Rogue, AD-DI), many increase stiffness into the tip (most other GD tour AD models, Kuro Kage) To assume all shafts need to be tipped just seems uninformed. Tipping off stiffness in a shaft like a AD-BB is just going to lower the kick point and give you a softer tip; exact opposite of tipping a AD-DI.
Oct 30, 2016 at 11:05 pm
Wow the author tried really hard to say this is better. The chart looks pretty much the same for all three shafts as far as landing zone. Just one leftward (I’m guess more of a hook) shot skewed the oval left. Unless he’s a left hander, none of his shots were hooks, rather either push or slices. Strange for him to say that he’s fighting a hook when he didn’t hit any.
The real difference does seem to be one offering more roll and one more carry due to launch angle changes I’m guessing due to the stiffer mid and butt sections. Worth it? The argument seems a bit thin.
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Whats in the Bag
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- Xander Schauffele what’s in the bag accurate as of the PGA Championship.
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Graphite Design Tour AD Wood Shafts
Please click on an item below to view more info about that shaft
IMAGES
VIDEO
COMMENTS
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW Performance iron shaft made in Japan Launch trajectory range: Mid to Mid-high Spin range: Low-mid to Mid Medium firm section with soft tip Speed recommendation: 86-105+ mph Tapered tip - 0.355 Tip OD SPECIFICATIONS Model Color Flex Length Wt. Tip OD Tip Para. Butt OD Torque Kick pt. Launch Spin 55
Titleist Tour AD 50i is a super-lightweight iron shaft with a low flex point and high torque. This provides a high launch angle and spin rate for the moderate speed, smooth swinging player. L-flex only. Titleist 712 AP1 irons, released in 2011, feature an advanced technology, multi-material, high MOI design to provide golfers with increased ...
Specifications. AP1 Offset Bounce Loft ... For the player seeking a light weight steel shaft with a mid ball flight and spin rate. Graphite Design Tour AD 65i. Titleist Tour AD 65i is an ultra-lightweight iron shaft with a low flex point and medium high torque. This provides a high launch angle and spin rate for the moderate speed, smooth ...
The Tour AD-65, AD-75 AD-85 and AD-95 weights feature a mid-kick point designed for a mid to mid/high ball flight and mid spin rates. Do as I did, take advantage of the superior distance with precise accuracy that Graphite Design shafts can offer and give the Tour AD premium Iron graphite shafts a try in your next set of irons. MSRP: $115.
Specifications. AP1 Offset Bounce Loft ... For the player seeking a light weight steel shaft with a mid ball flight and spin rate. Graphite Design Tour AD 65i. Titleist Tour AD 65i is an ultra-lightweight iron shaft with a low flex point and medium high torque. This provides a high launch angle and spin rate for the moderate speed, smooth ...
Graphite Design Tour AD shafts have won 32 global professional tournaments in 2017, with over half of those being won with the DI, "Deep Impact" model. The winners of the 2017 World Golf Championship - Bridgestone Invitational, Senior Open Championship both played the DI in their drivers and in some cases fairway woods and hybrids.
SHAFT SPECIFICATIONS Shaft Type Part Number Flex Length Wt Tip OD Tip Para. Butt OD Torque Kick pt TOUR AD VR4 R2 ADVR4-R2 Lite/Senior 46" 46 .335" 3.0" .596" 5.7° Mid TOUR AD VR 4 R1 ADVR4-R1 Regular 46" 47 .335" 3.0" .596" 5.6° Mid TOUR AD VR 4 S ADVR4-S Stiff 46" 47 .335" 3.0" .596" 5.6° Mid Shaft Type Part Number Flex Length Wt Tip OD ...
The Graphite Design Tour AD Iron shafts are not a new product. But my renewed interest in Carbon Fiber iron shafts prompted me to ask for review samples. They came, multiple shafts in 11 different weight / stuffiness models. It took quite some time to measure them. The good news, as you can see in this chart, the profiles inside the sets are ...
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. Performance iron shaft made in Japan. Launch trajectory range: Mid to Mid-high. Spin range: Low-mid to Mid. Medium firm section with soft tip. Speed recommendation: 86-105+ mph. Tapered tip - 0.355 Tip OD. OPTIONS. Available in flexes Regular and Stiff.
DESCRIPTION. Graphite Design Tour AD 65 Iron Shaft The Graphite Design Tour AD 65 Iron Shaft is the complement model to the Tour AD premium wood series shafts. Utilizing the same technology as in the Tour AD wood series, the Tour AD Iron Shaft achieved a low balance design resulting in exceptional feel and control. Designed and manufactured in ...
All Tour AD irons are mid kick and low torque and available in a variety of weights and flexes. All Tour AD Iron shafts are 0.355" Taper Tip. Standard sets are #5-#10 irons (6 shafts for 5-PW). You can add #3 and #4 iron shafts at an additional cost. Customer Reviews.
I was very impressed by how the Tour AD HD produced respectable results from poor swings . It took a truly awful effort to produce big slices or hooks. The Graphite Design Tour AD HD is available in weights ranging from 40 to 80 grams . At 40 grams, R2, R1, and Stiff are the available flexes. Everything from R2 to X is offered at 50 grams.
The Tour AD 55-115g Iron Shafts complement the premium Tour AD wood and hybrid series of shafts very well. The Tour AD Irons are designed and manufactured exclusively at the Graphite Design factory headquarters in Japan and are available in a jet black color with white bands and silver rings and in weight ranges from 55 grams to 115 grams.
Every shot was near the center of the face, and the monitor was showing the same push-draw time after time. For players who haven't hit Graphite Designs shafts and can't make use of their feel chart, I would say that the AD DI is a mix of the Diamana Blue and White shafts. It has the smooth feel and pronounced kick of the blue with the ...
November 21, 2011 at 11:24 PM. I had shoulder surgery and re-shafted my old AP2 clubs with the Graphite Design Tour AD 65 I shafts in a stiff flex. The lighter weight feels very good (increased my ball speed by 6 mph), the low torque provides great control and is great out of the rough, and the D4 swing weight (1/2 inch long) lets me still feel ...
The Graphite Design Tour AD HD is the evolution of the Tour AD MT. It has a mid-launch/low-spin profile. Street price is $379 and it's available now. The Graphite Design Tour AD HD represents the 2020 extension of its premium Tour AD lineup. In case you were wondering, the HD stands for Hyper Drive, which presumably speaks to the speed story ...
50 Words or Less. The Graphite Design Tour AD IZ shaft produces high launch and low spin with a unique feel.. Check out the low launch, low spin Tour AD VF HERE. Introduction. Graphite Design is a no-nonsense company. Every year, they release one or two new shafts with relatively modest fanfare (we reviewed the excellent Tour AD TP earlier this year). If you need giant social media campaigns ...
For those concerned with materials, the Tour AD IZ blends 50t premium graphite along with sections (most notably in the tip) of strategically placed TORAYCA T1100G to provide a stable shaft that the company says offers great feel.. With actual weights range from 46g (IZ 4) to 83g (IZ 8) and several flexes available at each of those weights, Graphite Design has run the count of individual Tour ...
The Numbers. I tested my Tour AD-DI gamer shaft (45.5 inches, tipped 1 inch) against a Tour AD-TP shaft (45.5 inches, untipped) and a Tour AD-TP shaft (45.5 inches, tipped 1 inch) in a TaylorMade M1 460 head (10.5 degrees) set to neutral. Yes, I have a bit more swing speed in the tank than displayed below, but it's also late October and I don't want to have a blown out back all winter.
Graphite Design Tour AD Wood Shafts. Please click on an item below to view more info about that shaft . Tour AD VF - NEW for 2024 - Available Now: Tour AD CQ : Tour AD UB : Tour AD HD: Tour AD XC: Tour AD DI : Tour AD DI - Black: Tour AD VR: Tour AD IZ: Tour AD TP: Tour AD F-Series FWY:
The 2019 Tour AD VR is a slightly tweaked version of the AD IZ used by Jordan Spieth and Rickie Fowler. It can be expected to provide slightly lower launch. News; ... 2013, is a fully-automated, all-in-one shaft profiling machine. In a matter of minutes, the S3 determines the following shaft specs: (Straightness, Consistency Profile, EI Profile ...
Performance. The new technology used in the AD TP is Graphite Designs's "Fast Taper Technology" or FTT. This design makes the shaft taper faster through the lower mid section to the tip. Its purpose is to give the player greater club head control at impact. For me, the AD TP was a very consistent performer, just like the AD DI.
Even on mishits, the shaft feels very stable. I could really lean into a swing or take it easy and still get predictable results. The Graphite Design Tour AD VR is available as light as 40 grams in R2, R1, and stiff flex. Those three choices, plus X flex, are available at 50 grams. The 60 gram version has a S/R flex, stiff, and X, and the ...